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it's so a classic flying-saucer really

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standing in the clearing he turned over

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to my father and helpless and and he

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looked in his eye

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alright hello and welcome to the show on

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Martin Willis your host and we have an

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interesting show for you today and this

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is a special show and it's with the sons

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of J Allen Hynek two of them

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we have Paul we have Joel and we are

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going to talk about the legacy of of J

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Allen Hynek and all kinds of things I've

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have a number of questions that were

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sent in after the first half-hour we are

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going to accept calls and up with that

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number up on the screen it's a new

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number and a new system and have tested

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out many times we should be just fine

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with it

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so we're gonna go and try that in like I

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said in after the first hour of the show

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and so I would like to welcome my guests

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both Paul and Joel hi NIC welcome

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welcome to the show thank you good to be

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here

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yes we had a couple of technical

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difficulties but we got through it

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let's let's hope everything goes

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smoothly from here on and first of all

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we already have some people trying to

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call in here but I would like to wait

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till the second half of the show if

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possible the second and the half hour

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here before we get started I just want

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to tell you I had a note from someone

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that you're gonna like this I do believe

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and when I was living out in California

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I got to meet Tom Snyder and talk-show

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host and I actually I'm a fine arts

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appraiser that's what I do for real work

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and I ended up doing appraising Tom's

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estate after he passed away and so I

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remain in touch with Pamela Burke and I

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happen to notice your dad on the Tom

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Schneider show lots of interviews so I

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wrote her she wrote me back this morning

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and she said J Allen Hynek was a

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favorite guest and won the audience

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really enjoy and that's from Pamela

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Burke she was a producer of the show and

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she told me she loved his sense of humor

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and she said that people just couldn't

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wait for

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come on the show and anyway I thought

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you might like to hear that

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good to hear yeah yeah so just now what

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was it like growing up in in the

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household when your dad was looking at

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the UFO topic well I guess I'm the

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oldest so maybe I'll go first on that

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one it was pretty interesting

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there were always a lot of interesting

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phone calls and people coming over to

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our house my father's you know our phone

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was in the phone phone number was in the

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phone book so and he welcomed people to

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call and he was well he was a bit of a

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he was a ham radio operator and I got

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the bug from him and set up sort of

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electronics lab in my basement and which

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is also my room and so often when he

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would have a was going to do an

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interview with somebody over the phone

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he would say Joel would you please

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record that because he knew if I had

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tapped the family phone line and had a

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you know a reel-to-reel tape recorder

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going down in the basement so so I would

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sit there in my room listening to these

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interviews and it was it was pretty

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interesting the thing that struck me

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about it most I think was how similar so

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many of the reports were so many car

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stoppage cases that were you know very

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similar in the way they played out and

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some very strange incidents one in

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particular a woman in a trailer park in

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Tennessee I think who was describing

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similar to a car stoppage a big light

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coming by and she found herself

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levitating off off the bed that left an

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impression on me but it was growing up

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with mom and dad and the family

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everybody was it was interesting there

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rarely Adele moment my

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they're always had interesting stories

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to tell and and was the people who came

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through the house that were fascinating

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my mother was quite a sociable person

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and so she would welcome people into the

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house and very often invite them for

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dinner and they would tell these

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interesting stories that you know was I

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guess not your average type of

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environment and so Paul is there any

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particular time like at school or

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anything like that that you were did you

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ever have we have a little trouble if

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your camera here you very colorful right

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now did you ever have any ridicule or

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did kids think it was interesting when

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you talked about it and could you talk

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about it well they couldn't stop us from

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talking about it

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yeah there was no ridicule you know my

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dad was somebody especially when close

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encounters came out when I was in my

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teens my dad became more well-known a

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little bit outside the circle of a sort

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of UFO and astronomy and astrophysics

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crowd but you know he was I never

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ridiculed or teased about it people

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thought all my friends thought was

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really super cool it was really fun and

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and as Joel said my dad was a very

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personable guy with a great sense of

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humor so he would come downstairs when

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we're having parties in the basement and

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talked to our friends and they'd say Oh

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dr. Hynek is here and they'd ask about

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some UFO case just something that they'd

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heard about so it was a lot of fun and

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we were we were very proud of him for

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being a scientist and being open-minded

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enough to tackle this great big question

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and as Joel said we had you know a

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coterie of fascinating people come by

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we had Fothergill over for dinner of the

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famous case in Papua New Guinea and you

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know he was attending an ecumenical

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conference in the US he wasn't on a book

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tour for UFOs or anything but you know

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my father heard about it and it

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for dinner and well if you have a famous

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UFO sighting and you come to the Hynek

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house for dinner you're gonna have to

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talk about it that's just the deal so it

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was it was fascinating it was the normal

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household in many aspects but we had to

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fo ornaments on the trees and paintings

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of Travis Walton on the wall and things

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like that so it was a great environment

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both from a scientific point of view and

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sort of UFOs adding a nice accent to it

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Wow

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yeah that's really that's really amazing

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so Joel you are the you are older and I

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believe you're the one who's portrayed

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and the History Channel series right as

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the the Boyan yes what it says been

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casting that's me it's supposedly yeah

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although the time is not I'm a little

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older than I should have been at the

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time that the series is going on right

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now so I'm sort of a conglomerate really

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of all the Hynek sons what's that

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all the Hynek children because we have a

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sister as well yes uh-huh I was

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wondering if there would be more changes

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as the show progressed I was able to

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watch the screeners up to Episode six

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and so now I will tell you and I'm sure

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you know this well first of all I read

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up Paul I should say that I read the

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letter you sent to Kevin Randle which

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you he showed me and then he posted on

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his blog which is great and and then you

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know there's a lot of grumblings in the

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UFO field there there is often and one

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of them someone commented on what you

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said about authentic about Adrian

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playing authentic and and so there

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there's some snide remarks and I just

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put that I believe that Paul meant he is

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playing an authentic character is that

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that's what you meant more or less by

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that right authentic to your father and

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not necessarily what happened yes it's

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the difference between authentic and

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accurate and I have great respect both

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for Aidan and

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who play our TV dad and mom for may for

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having made a lot of efforts to

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understand really what they were about

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talking with Joel and I and doing their

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own research and coming up with their

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own sort of take on what this character

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would have done in these highly

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exaggerated scenarios I see and and as

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far as the the grumblings I'll let you

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take this Joel I'm sure you have looked

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out there and so you know a lot of

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people in the UFO community are purists

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and they're you know people are saying

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hey it's you know it's muddying the

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waters it's it's doing this making you

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know people are getting the wrong

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impression but not it's is if they don't

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remember that it's a historical fiction

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and I think that the History Channel is

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doing a great service by actually

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providing information on the real cases

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that's something that is unprecedented

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as far as I know

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so what do you think overall does it

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00:10:05,150 --> 00:10:00,510
does it bother you that some of it goes

217
00:10:10,699 --> 00:10:05,160
a little overboard not really no because

218
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the the intent and the portrayal of my

219
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father as Paul said is authentic they

220
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they have to take some license you know

221
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to make it interesting when Paul and I

222
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first approached them or you know when

223
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he heard about the series was going to

224
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happen and we approached them and say

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hey we you know we'd like to help our

226
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main concern was that our father and

227
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mother be portrayed in a good light that

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that it you know would not do harm to my

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father's reputation

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Larry legacy and they said great why

231
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don't you guys be content consultants so

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that's how we you know sort of got

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involved in it and we were always giving

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them as much information as we could

235
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about you know what my father and mother

236
00:11:02,030 --> 00:10:57,089
were really like and what my dad was up

237
00:11:03,609 --> 00:11:02,040
to and you know Ayden and and Laura

238
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really tried hard

239
00:11:09,009 --> 00:11:06,049
to follow the exact the details Aiden

240
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would call up and say hey hey Joel you

241
00:11:12,999 --> 00:11:10,910
know how would your father pronounce

242
00:11:15,699 --> 00:11:13,009
Halley's Comet would it be Halley's or

243
00:11:18,839 --> 00:11:15,709
would it be Halley's well what wasn't uh

244
00:11:22,210 --> 00:11:18,849
well in Chicago it was hit was Halley's

245
00:11:25,119 --> 00:11:22,220
but you know out here in California

246
00:11:28,629 --> 00:11:25,129
it's Halley's so or maybe this is now

247
00:11:30,369 --> 00:11:28,639
and that was then but you know it really

248
00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:30,379
doesn't bother me the way my mother's

249
00:11:37,539 --> 00:11:33,769
character right now

250
00:11:38,199 --> 00:11:37,549
Laura is portraying him her as more

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demure

252
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and less capable than my mother was so

253
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that kind of has been bothering the

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family a bit but I think at that point

255
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Joel you know they they've left room for

256
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her character to her you to evolve oh

257
00:11:55,299 --> 00:11:54,109
yes she does she does change you know so

258
00:11:57,879 --> 00:11:55,309
of course you've read it be read all the

259
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:57,889
scripts and shows that she does sort of

260
00:12:02,829 --> 00:12:00,639
grow into it which is not actually

261
00:12:05,529 --> 00:12:02,839
inaccurate because my mother did start

262
00:12:08,319 --> 00:12:05,539
out as a very young you know homemaker

263
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and ended up being you know quite an

264
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aide to my father in the UFO field later

265
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on yeah that's that's something I did

266
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not know that that she did I didn't know

267
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she had an involvement now I remember

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reading that your father you know back I

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know is he was up I think he had some

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role in the Robertson panel in 1953 and

271
00:12:36,879 --> 00:12:32,539
I remember reading that he used to enjoy

272
00:12:39,369 --> 00:12:36,889
being a debunker you know yes as a

273
00:12:40,929 --> 00:12:39,379
course up before the transition I'd like

274
00:12:46,479 --> 00:12:40,939
to talk about that a little bit too in a

275
00:12:48,369 --> 00:12:46,489
bit yeah I mean when I was growing up

276
00:12:50,769 --> 00:12:48,379
the first thing I was always hearing was

277
00:12:53,249 --> 00:12:50,779
oh it's just you know normal things

278
00:12:57,279 --> 00:12:53,259
being seen under unusual conditions and

279
00:12:59,109 --> 00:12:57,289
then that of course changed when he

280
00:13:01,779 --> 00:12:59,119
realized that it was you know the same

281
00:13:04,149 --> 00:13:01,789
thing be are very often similar things

282
00:13:05,949 --> 00:13:04,159
being seen over and over again and by

283
00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:05,959
you know credible people and multiple

284
00:13:15,309 --> 00:13:09,169
witnesses yeah

285
00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:15,319
and so one I know we have a friend of

286
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:16,740
the show who's been a lot

287
00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:19,860
Stanford and I know are a new New Year

288
00:13:24,380 --> 00:13:22,500
dad and and by the way I do believe we

289
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:24,390
may have a call coming in from someone

290
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:27,410
else that you probably know who it is

291
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:32,610
that anyway the Socorro case ray was

292
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:35,250
very involved in the Socorro case and

293
00:13:40,370 --> 00:13:38,130
from what I understand that was kind of

294
00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:40,380
a turning point for your for your dad is

295
00:13:44,139 --> 00:13:42,360
that do you think that's accurate or do

296
00:13:48,829 --> 00:13:44,149
you know what the turning points were

297
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,839
III think that I think that's fair my

298
00:13:53,780 --> 00:13:50,880
dad did cite that case is one that he

299
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:53,790
found particularly convincing and that

300
00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:56,370
was around the time when he felt he'd

301
00:13:59,900 --> 00:13:58,200
really gotten his sea legs in working

302
00:14:02,420 --> 00:13:59,910
with Blue Book it was crystal clear that

303
00:14:05,150 --> 00:14:02,430
his motivation and the air forces were

304
00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:05,160
different and rightly so they were not

305
00:14:10,370 --> 00:14:07,620
looking to find the scientific truth

306
00:14:13,010 --> 00:14:10,380
certainly not a project Bluebook and

307
00:14:15,199 --> 00:14:13,020
right Pat after the 46 or second air

308
00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:15,209
squadron in 1953 kind of siphoned off

309
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:19,200
all the the real top-secret cases and by

310
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:21,420
that point my father really had dug his

311
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:23,970
teeth into this intractable phenomenon

312
00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:26,490
and and getting sort of shed the cloak

313
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:28,920
of the happy D bunker and I think it was

314
00:14:32,630 --> 00:14:30,600
around that time and that was one of the

315
00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:32,640
straws that sort of broke the debunkers

316
00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:36,630
back uh-huh we have a another friend of

317
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:39,209
the show and he's a very good UFO

318
00:14:43,130 --> 00:14:41,850
researcher dave Marlar david Marlar - I

319
00:14:47,329 --> 00:14:43,140
don't know if you're familiar with that

320
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,339
name he has he's rather notable for

321
00:14:52,130 --> 00:14:49,680
triangle UFOs but there's a lot more to

322
00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:52,140
him than just that he's also preserving

323
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:55,140
a wonderful archive of a UFO material

324
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:57,120
including a lot of Project Blue Book

325
00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:00,000
files and things like that he's out in

326
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:03,779
New Mexico and so he said it was okay to

327
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:05,850
use his name to ask a couple of

328
00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:07,490
questions one of them being what are

329
00:15:12,769 --> 00:15:10,649
both of your personal opinions either

330
00:15:15,889 --> 00:15:12,779
one of you can go first in with regard

331
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:15,899
to the UFO to the UFO subject in general

332
00:15:25,010 --> 00:15:22,170
fact fiction etc well I definitely think

333
00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:25,020
there's something going on there what it

334
00:15:29,850 --> 00:15:28,470
is who knows but I think there's this

335
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:29,860
too much

336
00:15:36,420 --> 00:15:32,890
evidence to many reports by credible

337
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:36,430
people multiple witnesses that something

338
00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:40,510
intelligently guided is happening but

339
00:15:48,330 --> 00:15:45,060
whatever it is we have yet to find out

340
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:48,340
yeah I was I was in a lead vehicle for

341
00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:49,810
the March for science a couple years ago

342
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:52,660
in LA and I had a great video of all the

343
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:55,090
signs that people had these are a bunch

344
00:16:01,560 --> 00:15:57,370
of angry nerds and one of the signs that

345
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:01,570
I really liked had the saying I'd rather

346
00:16:06,420 --> 00:16:04,090
have questions I can't answer

347
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,430
then answers I can't question and I

348
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:08,560
think that sums up what my father felt

349
00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:09,850
and I think probably what Joel and

350
00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:12,220
certainly what I do is that this is a

351
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:14,950
phenomena that has enough evidence for

352
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:18,190
an honest observer to come to the

353
00:16:22,350 --> 00:16:19,690
conclusion that there's something there

354
00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:22,360
now the provenance where these things

355
00:16:27,570 --> 00:16:23,880
come from are the extra-terrestrial

356
00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:27,580
that's a bit beyond the purview of a

357
00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:30,700
real scientist anybody can have an

358
00:16:34,950 --> 00:16:33,310
opinion and frankly my father thought

359
00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:34,960
that the extra-terrestrial hypothesis

360
00:16:38,730 --> 00:16:36,550
had some problems you know you have to

361
00:16:41,190 --> 00:16:38,740
travel vast distances kinda have to

362
00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:41,200
tweak Einstein in the nose we have very

363
00:16:45,570 --> 00:16:43,630
sensitive instruments to detect objects

364
00:16:47,370 --> 00:16:45,580
coming and leaving our atmosphere and we

365
00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:47,380
don't have the correlating reports to

366
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,080
those and these objects seem to exhibit

367
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:52,720
a lot of comfort with our gravity and

368
00:16:57,210 --> 00:16:55,510
our atmosphere so that's there were some

369
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:57,220
non-trivial problems to that hypothesis

370
00:17:02,060 --> 00:17:00,880
so I also I believe in the singularity

371
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:02,070
and the sort of the Ray Kurzweil

372
00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:04,480
benevolent view of the singularity and

373
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:06,760
if these other civilizations have

374
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,170
achieved the ability to come here

375
00:17:13,290 --> 00:17:11,199
they're probably post singularity or you

376
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:13,300
know AI has become self-aware and

377
00:17:17,820 --> 00:17:16,330
recursively self-improving so they don't

378
00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:17,830
really have any need to come here they

379
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,510
don't need our gold they don't need our

380
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:21,520
water they're not afraid of us being on

381
00:17:26,610 --> 00:17:23,770
the cusp of nuclear prowess and they're

382
00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:26,620
not interested in our exceptional human

383
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:29,620
love so the issue I have is why would

384
00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:32,170
they come here and flit around like

385
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:34,630
Cheshire cats and then leave and it's

386
00:17:41,150 --> 00:17:37,510
just a question I can't answer I can t

387
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,410
one thing to that is I mean

388
00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:45,520
in terms of what do I really think I

389
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:48,070
really think that they represent

390
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:52,170
something coming from another dimension

391
00:17:58,050 --> 00:17:55,530
because of the way they so often act

392
00:17:59,780 --> 00:17:58,060
part of the time exhibiting earthly

393
00:18:02,910 --> 00:17:59,790
physics and then part of the time

394
00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:02,920
exhibiting non earthly physics like for

395
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:04,720
a while they have mass and then they

396
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:07,810
appear not to and this also that sort of

397
00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:10,570
answer as Paul pointed out that the

398
00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:12,280
issue of hardware traveling huge

399
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:13,960
distances requiring almost infinite

400
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:18,250
energy that this is some aspect of

401
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:20,970
physics we have yet to discover right

402
00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:24,720
yes that's that's what I thought as well

403
00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:27,190
and the possibility you know I've

404
00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:28,750
mentioned a number of times along the

405
00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:32,230
lines of what you said Paul that why

406
00:18:35,910 --> 00:18:34,150
would if there's so much life out there

407
00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:35,920
possible life out there I should say

408
00:18:42,210 --> 00:18:39,340
intelligent life possible out there why

409
00:18:45,150 --> 00:18:42,220
are we so special why would we be

410
00:18:48,210 --> 00:18:45,160
visited by so many you know it is pretty

411
00:18:52,110 --> 00:18:48,220
curious if you really think about the

412
00:18:55,020 --> 00:18:52,120
topic like I do almost all the time but

413
00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:55,030
uh alright we've had some people try to

414
00:18:58,350 --> 00:18:56,980
call in so I will tell you please be

415
00:19:03,810 --> 00:18:58,360
patient we'll be taking your calls in a

416
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:03,820
little while and so if and I understand

417
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:08,080
what you just said Joel about you know

418
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:09,850
the physics thing there's a lot to get

419
00:19:15,930 --> 00:19:12,120
around I understand your father's

420
00:19:19,380 --> 00:19:15,940
thoughts also because I you know the

421
00:19:20,850 --> 00:19:19,390
scope of travel is unbelievable between

422
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:20,860
one star and another it's just

423
00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:24,670
incomprehensible so I get that and the

424
00:19:28,110 --> 00:19:26,350
amount of energy needed but there may be

425
00:19:30,090 --> 00:19:28,120
something else that they know that we

426
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:30,100
don't know as far as you know the

427
00:19:34,620 --> 00:19:31,650
wormhole thing there's all kinds of

428
00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:34,630
ideas but the interdimensional is

429
00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:40,360
another definite possibility so I just I

430
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:42,940
got a text from a friend of the show

431
00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:46,330
who's gonna be calling in and he he made

432
00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:48,070
a really good point a lot of people

433
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:50,560
listening to this show may not know the

434
00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:52,000
things that we know because we've been

435
00:19:56,380 --> 00:19:54,190
around this influence one of them is the

436
00:19:59,950 --> 00:19:56,390
Robertson panel

437
00:20:03,880 --> 00:19:59,960
so that was set up in 1953 it was

438
00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:03,890
basically the role of the group was to

439
00:20:11,530 --> 00:20:09,380
find ways to soften the public outcry

440
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:11,540
about UFOs and try to figure out ways to

441
00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:13,490
debunk them and of course your father is

442
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:16,280
known for the swamp gas thing that could

443
00:20:26,260 --> 00:20:17,510
probably never live that one down right

444
00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:26,270
oh and so do you know did he ever talk

445
00:20:37,030 --> 00:20:32,360
about the Robertson panel not much no I

446
00:20:38,590 --> 00:20:37,040
think that was have been so early on he

447
00:20:41,770 --> 00:20:38,600
didn't talk about that much to me anyway

448
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:41,780
Paul no I mean I

449
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:43,490
I remember hearing talk about it during

450
00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:45,290
an address one time and seeing what he

451
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:47,150
wrote about it I know it was a very

452
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,010
frustrating time because that's you know

453
00:20:52,750 --> 00:20:51,200
the Robertson panel and the Condon

454
00:20:55,870 --> 00:20:52,760
committee are the sort of two bookends

455
00:20:59,710 --> 00:20:55,880
on the Air Force's trial balloons if you

456
00:21:02,170 --> 00:20:59,720
will for having some public excuse to

457
00:21:04,750 --> 00:21:02,180
exit stage right from the UFO phenomena

458
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:04,760
right and what did your what did your

459
00:21:12,790 --> 00:21:07,130
your the most controversial and most

460
00:21:15,250 --> 00:21:12,800
talked about you know UFO you know crash

461
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:15,260
or whatever topic always comes back to

462
00:21:18,670 --> 00:21:17,090
Roswell what did your do you remember

463
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:18,680
what your dad thought about with the

464
00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:24,290
Roswell case he I mean he didn't see any

465
00:21:30,460 --> 00:21:28,220
reason why it would be you know or never

466
00:21:33,340 --> 00:21:30,470
saw any evidence for why it was an

467
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:33,350
extraterrestrial visitor it sort of

468
00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:36,530
remained you know an unidentified flying

469
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:40,550
object to him no explanation really but

470
00:21:47,410 --> 00:21:42,170
he could that I that he ever expressed

471
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:47,420
to me beyond that well the Roswell case

472
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:49,970
that it you know it's hard to explain

473
00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:51,770
away is that you have the press

474
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:53,480
information officer of the air force

475
00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:55,730
base who puts out a press release saying

476
00:22:00,340 --> 00:21:57,890
we have a flying saucer right and you

477
00:22:02,650 --> 00:22:00,350
have to think that that person didn't

478
00:22:05,050 --> 00:22:02,660
just Johnny off on his own and do this

479
00:22:06,970 --> 00:22:05,060
and his career in fact was not impeded

480
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,980
afterwards so he must have had the

481
00:22:08,890 --> 00:22:08,480
authority of someone at the base to do

482
00:22:10,030 --> 00:22:08,900
that

483
00:22:12,370 --> 00:22:10,040
now a quick

484
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:12,380
the next day they retract that but the

485
00:22:18,190 --> 00:22:15,110
fact is at was well somebody with the

486
00:22:21,070 --> 00:22:18,200
authority to make the most infamous

487
00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:21,080
press release they're ever going to said

488
00:22:25,420 --> 00:22:23,780
we have a UFO so and you'd think there

489
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:25,430
would be some hard-boiled

490
00:22:29,470 --> 00:22:27,710
you know analysts that could determine

491
00:22:33,340 --> 00:22:29,480
the difference between balsa wood and

492
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:33,350
tin foil and some space alloys so that's

493
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:34,640
just one of the aspects of the Roswell

494
00:22:41,230 --> 00:22:37,790
case that won't go away I agree and

495
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:41,240
that's that something I've brought up on

496
00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:44,330
this show many times is they didn't have

497
00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:46,910
to say anything well there wasn't one

498
00:22:53,860 --> 00:22:49,060
single reason that they had to say

499
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:53,870
anything at all it was just gone away so

500
00:22:59,860 --> 00:22:55,910
you almost they would have tweeted about

501
00:23:03,610 --> 00:22:59,870
it if they could have yeah yeah doesn't

502
00:23:06,190 --> 00:23:03,620
make any sense what about what about

503
00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:06,200
taking his his work home with him did he

504
00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:09,190
did he do that in any type of way oh

505
00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:12,860
yeah I mean he's he was always you know

506
00:23:18,670 --> 00:23:16,460
taking files copying files from the

507
00:23:21,310 --> 00:23:18,680
wright-patterson Air Force Base and of

508
00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:21,320
course he had his own filing system of

509
00:23:28,690 --> 00:23:23,150
you know reports that he would

510
00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:28,700
investigate on his own and yes the Hynek

511
00:23:35,890 --> 00:23:33,350
house became quite a library of UFO

512
00:23:40,140 --> 00:23:35,900
sighting reports and I think Paul's room

513
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:40,150
there at one point was the official UFO

514
00:23:46,690 --> 00:23:44,330
repository at one point now was he was

515
00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:46,700
he ever stressed by the job didya did

516
00:23:53,530 --> 00:23:50,140
you ever notice any stress from him yes

517
00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:53,540
sure he was sort of in an awkward

518
00:23:57,250 --> 00:23:55,670
position because on the one hand I mean

519
00:24:00,300 --> 00:23:57,260
he believed that this was something that

520
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:00,310
we should you know really be studied and

521
00:24:05,980 --> 00:24:03,770
should be known to everybody so we have

522
00:24:08,110 --> 00:24:05,990
people like McDonald who was beating him

523
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:08,120
to say Hynek you've got to come clean

524
00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:09,370
with this you've got to tell everybody

525
00:24:14,620 --> 00:24:12,740
you know what's going on and yet he had

526
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:14,630
also even because he was working at

527
00:24:19,810 --> 00:24:18,050
Northwestern and other universities you

528
00:24:22,419 --> 00:24:19,820
know they didn't believe in the whole

529
00:24:24,609 --> 00:24:22,429
you I think poor thing at all

530
00:24:27,489 --> 00:24:24,619
so he had to maintain you know his

531
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:27,499
scientific credentials and so he walked

532
00:24:33,330 --> 00:24:30,320
a fine line there really you know on the

533
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:33,340
on the fence trying to keep both sides

534
00:24:38,139 --> 00:24:36,470
happy and at the same time he didn't

535
00:24:39,460 --> 00:24:38,149
want to lose you know had to keep the

536
00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:39,470
Air Force happy too we didn't want to

537
00:24:44,769 --> 00:24:42,529
lose his access to all this information

538
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:44,779
all this data that you know as a

539
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:47,360
scientist he needed to try and figure

540
00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:50,090
out what's going on and if I could riff

541
00:24:55,180 --> 00:24:51,769
on Joel's point and go back to something

542
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:55,190
you raised Marty sure yes at Blue Book

543
00:25:00,279 --> 00:24:56,960
my father had certainly different

544
00:25:01,869 --> 00:25:00,289
masters to serve the Air Force and and

545
00:25:04,389 --> 00:25:01,879
the scientific community but also

546
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:04,399
believers these are three very distinct

547
00:25:08,619 --> 00:25:06,049
subgroups and he had to sort of carve

548
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:08,629
out an overlapping area in the Venn

549
00:25:12,580 --> 00:25:10,730
diagram between the three of them and I

550
00:25:14,379 --> 00:25:12,590
kind of liken that to the program now

551
00:25:17,649 --> 00:25:14,389
and you mentioned that you're purists

552
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:17,659
and I obviously I understand Kevin's

553
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:19,279
concerns and I'm going to talk with him

554
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:22,490
next week but a fictionalized portrayal

555
00:25:28,299 --> 00:25:26,210
like this show will move the needle far

556
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:28,309
more than any kind of documentary will

557
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,080
on the social acceptability and an

558
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:32,480
ability to talk about this phenomena and

559
00:25:37,659 --> 00:25:36,049
I think the show is trying to drove all

560
00:25:40,299 --> 00:25:37,669
that same kind of line like my father

561
00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:40,309
did in real life between being somewhat

562
00:25:45,330 --> 00:25:42,769
accurate and being somewhat effective in

563
00:25:50,409 --> 00:25:45,340
advancing the state of the discussion

564
00:25:53,139 --> 00:25:50,419
mm-hmm very good now another question

565
00:25:56,619 --> 00:25:53,149
from Dave he wants to know what do you

566
00:25:59,950 --> 00:25:56,629
think your father would think of the UFO

567
00:26:05,320 --> 00:25:59,960
research field as it exists today that's

568
00:26:07,690 --> 00:26:05,330
kind of a loaded question well I think

569
00:26:09,389 --> 00:26:07,700
he'd be happy to see that there is is

570
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:09,399
something going on he'd be happy to

571
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:12,470
learn that the government spent twenty

572
00:26:17,470 --> 00:26:15,289
million dollars investigating what Air

573
00:26:20,499 --> 00:26:17,480
Force pilots were seeing you know at

574
00:26:22,180 --> 00:26:20,509
what UFOs they were seeing he'd be happy

575
00:26:24,999 --> 00:26:22,190
about that and I think he'd be very

576
00:26:26,379 --> 00:26:25,009
happy about the interest level at the

577
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:26,389
moment as Paul pointed out moving the

578
00:26:34,090 --> 00:26:30,049
needle because that usually corresponds

579
00:26:35,980 --> 00:26:34,100
to funding or you know people series

580
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:35,990
people

581
00:26:39,790 --> 00:26:38,450
to figure out what it is and maybe

582
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:39,800
eventually get a really serious

583
00:26:47,980 --> 00:26:44,809
scientific effort going on here you know

584
00:26:50,770 --> 00:26:47,990
my father was his main message to us

585
00:26:52,780 --> 00:26:50,780
kids was keep an open mind that's not

586
00:26:55,450 --> 00:26:52,790
because he was always talking about how

587
00:26:56,650 --> 00:26:55,460
in science they would get very

588
00:26:58,690 --> 00:26:56,660
comfortable think that they knew

589
00:27:00,220 --> 00:26:58,700
everything and then some new discovery

590
00:27:02,830 --> 00:27:00,230
would come along that would shake their

591
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:02,840
world and so he was always pointing out

592
00:27:06,910 --> 00:27:05,450
examples of that to us and you know keep

593
00:27:09,610 --> 00:27:06,920
an open mind cuz there's so much still

594
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,620
that the scientific community physics

595
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:12,320
does doesn't know there's you know a

596
00:27:17,919 --> 00:27:15,200
dark matter this all this stuff out

597
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:17,929
there is undetectable you know so

598
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:20,960
there's a lot yet to be figured out yeah

599
00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:22,400
I think that's a good point about

600
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:24,230
keeping an open mind when confronted

601
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:26,330
with sort of their early indicators of a

602
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:28,550
potential new phenomena but then also

603
00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:31,370
keeping your mind open to not just flail

604
00:27:37,630 --> 00:27:33,950
at the best answer you have available to

605
00:27:39,130 --> 00:27:37,640
close it down to decide there as a

606
00:27:41,470 --> 00:27:39,140
phenomenon so you've got to keep your

607
00:27:43,660 --> 00:27:41,480
mind open all the time that's right

608
00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:43,670
that's right end up speaking of moving

609
00:27:53,169 --> 00:27:49,340
the needle back on December 16th of 2017

610
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:53,179
the New York Times article kind of move

611
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,290
the needle

612
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:56,240
what did or what did what was your

613
00:28:03,580 --> 00:27:57,770
opinion either one of you what was your

614
00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:03,590
opinion when you read that yeah be very

615
00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:07,790
happy to to read it Paul and you go with

616
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:10,220
that one yeah you know and there's

617
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:12,170
another recent article in The New York

618
00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:14,290
Times about my father in the show yes

619
00:28:22,030 --> 00:28:18,140
yeah we just came out the show doing you

620
00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:22,040
know when you when you have a a sterling

621
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:24,470
publication like that give a sober

622
00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:27,440
serious look at the phenomena it changes

623
00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:30,740
people's minds because if you're not

624
00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:33,260
interested in you know you can live a

625
00:28:38,620 --> 00:28:35,510
pretty healthy happy life without being

626
00:28:40,780 --> 00:28:38,630
confronted or seeing but when the New

627
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:40,790
York Times delves into it twice and

628
00:28:47,169 --> 00:28:44,890
several years then people who made

629
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:47,179
otherwise you know give it the time of

630
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:49,520
day really have to stop and think okay

631
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:50,570
what's going on here and when they see

632
00:28:56,140 --> 00:28:53,360
it reflected through the prism of a

633
00:28:59,050 --> 00:28:56,150
relatable mainstream astronomer who was

634
00:29:00,940 --> 00:28:59,060
thrust into this Millia and came out the

635
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:00,950
other end you know

636
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:03,410
tapping issues together I think people

637
00:29:06,390 --> 00:29:04,850
are sort of brought along on that

638
00:29:09,670 --> 00:29:06,400
intellectual voyage

639
00:29:12,340 --> 00:29:09,680
yes and just for the person who doesn't

640
00:29:14,770 --> 00:29:12,350
know the New York Times revealed you

641
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:14,780
mentioned earlier that again there may

642
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:16,490
be a lot of people just listening to

643
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:18,170
this that are not familiar with with

644
00:29:24,730 --> 00:29:21,530
that and that came out basically saying

645
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:24,740
that Pentagon had a research program and

646
00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:27,530
I'm sure they still do looking at the

647
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:32,600
topic and trying to explore if it's a

648
00:29:37,230 --> 00:29:34,730
threat if you know identify you know

649
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:37,240
unidentified objects are a threat and

650
00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:39,170
that's something that I've always

651
00:29:45,010 --> 00:29:41,240
thought was interesting that the Air

652
00:29:47,260 --> 00:29:45,020
Force could never really protect us and

653
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:47,270
we have a call coming in so I'm gonna

654
00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:50,690
take that now caller you're on the line

655
00:29:55,570 --> 00:29:51,590
your first name where you're calling

656
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:55,580
from my first name is Lee and I'm

657
00:30:09,010 --> 00:29:59,600
calling from Queens New York Lee Spiegel

658
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,020
oh hi and Joe remember that I saw them

659
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:11,440
running through their house many times

660
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:15,770
in 1975 and 1978 when I was there

661
00:30:20,140 --> 00:30:18,290
visiting their father who was working

662
00:30:21,970 --> 00:30:20,150
with me on a couple of UFO projects

663
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:21,980
because I remember you guys very well

664
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:25,130
I remember you Lee and I and thank you

665
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:28,490
for the email you sent no no you didn't

666
00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:32,510
hear him go ahead again oh yes I

667
00:30:39,220 --> 00:30:34,190
absolutely remember you Lee and I'm

668
00:30:41,950 --> 00:30:39,230
happy to receive your email no no no

669
00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:41,960
it's my phone system I I was wondering

670
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:44,870
if that might happen so I'm gonna that's

671
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:46,880
one part I guess wasn't tested out too

672
00:30:52,150 --> 00:30:48,110
well if you can't hear them

673
00:30:54,940 --> 00:30:52,160
so Lee if you have the number that I

674
00:30:57,010 --> 00:30:54,950
previously gave you go ahead and call

675
00:30:59,440 --> 00:30:57,020
back on that I'm gonna use the old Skype

676
00:31:01,980 --> 00:30:59,450
number it was it was worth a shot we'll

677
00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:01,990
get that ironed out by next show and

678
00:31:04,510 --> 00:31:03,260
your

679
00:31:06,430 --> 00:31:04,520
okay you'll recall back on the number

680
00:31:08,830 --> 00:31:06,440
that begins at six that's right yeah

681
00:31:11,710 --> 00:31:08,840
okay I'm hanging up goodbye all right so

682
00:31:13,810 --> 00:31:11,720
Lee's gonna call back and so that's it I

683
00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:13,820
got to put another number up there and

684
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:16,580
that will be on YouTube it'll show up in

685
00:31:24,780 --> 00:31:19,970
YouTube here in a second and Marty so to

686
00:31:27,370 --> 00:31:24,790
your point about the a tip advanced

687
00:31:30,340 --> 00:31:27,380
identification program you know that's a

688
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:30,350
fascinating discovery or a revelation or

689
00:31:33,970 --> 00:31:32,510
disclosure that the Air Force had for at

690
00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:33,980
least five years that program going on

691
00:31:38,380 --> 00:31:36,350
and I think it's very telling that they

692
00:31:40,750 --> 00:31:38,390
had the word threat in the title of that

693
00:31:42,130 --> 00:31:40,760
project I do too yeah

694
00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:42,140
that's really how the Air Force looked

695
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:45,350
at these two things you know Joel and I

696
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:46,970
had the honor of meeting Lieutenant

697
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:49,310
Colonel Robert friend at Bolthouse

698
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:52,730
months ago one of the last surviving

699
00:31:57,010 --> 00:31:54,890
directors of Project Blue Book right and

700
00:31:59,410 --> 00:31:57,020
he was an amazing not only was the ball

701
00:32:00,580 --> 00:31:59,420
with you but was the Tuskegee Airmen and

702
00:32:01,570 --> 00:32:00,590
worked on the Space Shuttle I mean he's

703
00:32:04,060 --> 00:32:01,580
a true American Hero

704
00:32:05,980 --> 00:32:04,070
and he was about the best pick of the

705
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:05,990
draw that my father could get repel was

706
00:32:10,330 --> 00:32:08,690
good as well but friend really had to

707
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:10,340
draw in that same kind of line that Joel

708
00:32:17,140 --> 00:32:12,410
mentioned the my dad did between Air

709
00:32:19,390 --> 00:32:17,150
Force responsibility and science and he

710
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:19,400
was asked a question about what how

711
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:21,530
would you deal with these things and he

712
00:32:25,390 --> 00:32:23,090
said the first thing he did was to look

713
00:32:27,490 --> 00:32:25,400
to see if a sighting or a report was

714
00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:27,500
legitimate and then the next step was

715
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:29,150
did it pose a threat to national

716
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:29,930
security

717
00:32:34,930 --> 00:32:31,970
so even with somebody like that a very

718
00:32:36,820 --> 00:32:34,940
likable honest man a scientist like my

719
00:32:39,970 --> 00:32:36,830
father is going to fear

720
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:39,980
as soon as step two in an investigation

721
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:41,510
because he's going to want to understand

722
00:32:45,610 --> 00:32:43,370
the science and replicate and prove and

723
00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:45,620
get to the bottom of it not thinking

724
00:32:50,350 --> 00:32:47,990
about national security risks but the

725
00:32:52,540 --> 00:32:50,360
Air Force views these things as a threat

726
00:32:55,170 --> 00:32:52,550
either a real threat to our our

727
00:32:58,660 --> 00:32:55,180
civilization or a public-relations

728
00:33:00,310 --> 00:32:58,670
perception problem right right I've

729
00:33:02,860 --> 00:33:00,320
always thought it was curious when

730
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:02,870
there's you know like the O'Hair here

731
00:33:06,940 --> 00:33:05,330
you know at O'Hare Airport that incident

732
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:06,950
you know that's a threat you know that's

733
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:09,050
a threat to aviation the busiest you

734
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,370
know one of the busiest airports in the

735
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:12,080
entire country leaves back on the line

736
00:33:18,220 --> 00:33:16,880
hi Lee I'm here I'm back and if Paul

737
00:33:19,510 --> 00:33:18,230
bill can just say hi it's like I

738
00:33:21,730 --> 00:33:19,520
remember their voices from all those

739
00:33:24,190 --> 00:33:21,740
years ago yeah that lady

740
00:33:24,970 --> 00:33:24,200
I remember you quiet very well good to

741
00:33:30,010 --> 00:33:24,980
hear your voice

742
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:30,020
you look like Serpico back then right I

743
00:33:34,210 --> 00:33:32,450
did yeah I did and and you know what you

744
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:34,220
know what I have to say speaking of

745
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,490
people looking at other people I can see

746
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:39,760
here I can see your hand up there Paul

747
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:42,530
nobody has mentioned and I don't know

748
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:46,490
why but but Joel when your head turns in

749
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:49,610
a certain way you look more like your

750
00:33:57,580 --> 00:33:52,370
father than the actor who's portraying

751
00:34:00,430 --> 00:33:57,590
your father you know I gotta say my

752
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:00,440
father was kind of noted in what he did

753
00:34:04,930 --> 00:34:03,170
in and and when people say that to me I

754
00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:04,940
don't know about you Joel but I I never

755
00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:07,310
like caring that you look just like your

756
00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:08,110
father

757
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:10,790
no it doesn't bother you like that yeah

758
00:34:16,659 --> 00:34:15,200
I mean I I am sure no I don't I sure you

759
00:34:20,889 --> 00:34:16,669
notice the beard I'm growing here right

760
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:20,899
yeah no no I if it doesn't bother you

761
00:34:29,950 --> 00:34:22,970
then I'm on board with that because you

762
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:29,960
definitely do okay one of the reasons I

763
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:36,560
grew this mustache leave or comment well

764
00:34:42,430 --> 00:34:40,129
I see I I wanted to tell a good little

765
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:42,440
story about about your dad that I

766
00:34:48,070 --> 00:34:47,090
enjoyed telling the people in 1978 when

767
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:48,080
Allen Hynek

768
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:51,050
was working with me to bring United

769
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:53,690
Nations UFO information to bring it all

770
00:35:00,250 --> 00:34:57,440
to the UN finally and we we were both

771
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,260
brought over to Hollywood along with dr.

772
00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:02,960
Jacques Vallee astronomer to have a

773
00:35:08,140 --> 00:35:05,750
meeting with Steven Spielberg because

774
00:35:11,110 --> 00:35:08,150
Spielberg wanted to know was anything

775
00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:11,120
that he or the studio Columbia Studios

776
00:35:15,310 --> 00:35:13,310
could do to help with our upcoming UN

777
00:35:18,010 --> 00:35:15,320
presentation this was just a few months

778
00:35:20,020 --> 00:35:18,020
after a little movie called Close

779
00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:20,030
Encounters of the Third Kind had come

780
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:23,990
out and so on the day that we arrived at

781
00:35:29,620 --> 00:35:27,410
in Hollywood I'm a I met your father at

782
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:29,630
the hotel we were all staying and I

783
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:30,770
helped him upstairs to

784
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:34,160
room with his luggage yes we we walked

785
00:35:37,990 --> 00:35:35,810
in these through his luggage around and

786
00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:38,000
the first thing he did was he opened up

787
00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:40,220
this interesting little case he put it

788
00:35:44,350 --> 00:35:42,260
on the dresser he cleared off a whole

789
00:35:45,580 --> 00:35:44,360
lot of room on the dresser and he opened

790
00:35:47,710 --> 00:35:45,590
up this case and the first thing he

791
00:35:51,580 --> 00:35:47,720
pulled out of it was a really nice

792
00:35:54,580 --> 00:35:51,590
looking cassette player back then this

793
00:35:56,350 --> 00:35:54,590
was 1978 this is pre DVDs

794
00:35:58,030 --> 00:35:56,360
he had this cassette player put it on

795
00:36:00,460 --> 00:35:58,040
the counter and then the next thing he

796
00:36:03,220 --> 00:36:00,470
pulled out of the case were two lovely

797
00:36:06,610 --> 00:36:03,230
little stereo speakers put them on both

798
00:36:09,340 --> 00:36:06,620
sides of the cassette player then

799
00:36:13,060 --> 00:36:09,350
finally he pulled out of the case this

800
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:13,070
lovely big collection of classical music

801
00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:15,650
CDs my CDs what am I saying

802
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:19,640
cassette CDs and he put one in and he

803
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:21,410
said this is what I like to listen to

804
00:36:25,570 --> 00:36:23,450
when I'm working when I want to relax

805
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:25,580
and I had classical music of there in

806
00:36:30,190 --> 00:36:27,770
the room and and then when he was like

807
00:36:32,410 --> 00:36:30,200
done for his stay at that hotel he'd

808
00:36:34,510 --> 00:36:32,420
pack it all away and off to the airport

809
00:36:36,490 --> 00:36:34,520
he went do you guys remember that he had

810
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:36,500
this collection and player that he

811
00:36:42,730 --> 00:36:38,930
carried around with him oh yeah

812
00:36:44,980 --> 00:36:42,740
yes he was quite the audiophile always

813
00:36:48,030 --> 00:36:44,990
striving to get the most the best sound

814
00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:48,040
he could going in his office and you

815
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:52,430
even always hear classical music pouring

816
00:36:59,260 --> 00:36:56,410
out of his upstairs office in the house

817
00:37:01,780 --> 00:36:59,270
yeah and he said that if he didn't hear

818
00:37:07,150 --> 00:37:01,790
music at least once a day he would get a

819
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:07,160
headache about that that that's great

820
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:09,350
and you know you guys you both mentioned

821
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:11,810
all the filing cabinets that he had and

822
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:13,130
he had to move things around from the

823
00:37:16,990 --> 00:37:15,050
office to the house I will tell you

824
00:37:21,010 --> 00:37:17,000
another story when I was there in

825
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:21,020
Evanston and I was at his office at at

826
00:37:25,860 --> 00:37:23,510
the University and we were sitting

827
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:25,870
around we were going to previously

828
00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:28,850
Declassified UFO documents that I've

829
00:37:33,790 --> 00:37:30,710
been gathering so we could put a nice

830
00:37:37,060 --> 00:37:33,800
packet together to present it later on

831
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:37,070
that year 1978 to the United Nations to

832
00:37:41,380 --> 00:37:39,290
the media that showed up and to all the

833
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:41,390
nations so I'm sitting there with your

834
00:37:44,530 --> 00:37:43,040
father and I'm saying Alan we've got

835
00:37:47,380 --> 00:37:44,540
some great stuff here

836
00:37:49,210 --> 00:37:47,390
but you know I've got to think that in

837
00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:49,220
all the years of you with the Air Force

838
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:51,110
with Project Blue Book and you had

839
00:37:57,700 --> 00:37:54,380
access to different places I have to

840
00:37:59,770 --> 00:37:57,710
think that you you use your fingers into

841
00:38:02,380 --> 00:37:59,780
some filing cabinets and pulled out some

842
00:38:04,510 --> 00:38:02,390
information to keep in your eventual

843
00:38:05,860 --> 00:38:04,520
files I'm looking for something that I

844
00:38:08,290 --> 00:38:05,870
would think would be a smoking gun

845
00:38:10,780 --> 00:38:08,300
about this whole thing do you have

846
00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:10,790
something like that that we can show at

847
00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:12,470
the United Nations and you walked over

848
00:38:16,930 --> 00:38:14,660
to one of his filing cabinets opens it

849
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:16,940
up pulled out a manila envelope and as

850
00:38:21,460 --> 00:38:19,760
he handed it to me he said Lee I don't

851
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:21,470
know if you're gonna think this is a

852
00:38:26,410 --> 00:38:24,560
smoking gun but if you like this I'll

853
00:38:28,330 --> 00:38:26,420
give you permission you can use it you

854
00:38:29,890 --> 00:38:28,340
can make some copies of it and we can

855
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:29,900
give it away at the United Nations that

856
00:38:35,140 --> 00:38:32,210
I had no idea what he was about to give

857
00:38:38,170 --> 00:38:35,150
me and I opened it up very slowly and

858
00:38:40,750 --> 00:38:38,180
and I started reading this thing and I

859
00:38:43,780 --> 00:38:40,760
can't possibly right now use the

860
00:38:45,550 --> 00:38:43,790
expletives that I said when I said to

861
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:45,560
him things like Alan are you blank

862
00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:48,650
kidding me what are you kidding me where

863
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:49,670
did you get this

864
00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:55,010
that doesn't matter but you can use it

865
00:39:00,610 --> 00:38:57,230
at the United Nations and what I was

866
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:00,620
reading was a chapter from an actual

867
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:04,370
science textbook that was given away to

868
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:06,890
all Air Force Academy cadets in Colorado

869
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:09,170
Springs the name of the science book was

870
00:39:15,330 --> 00:39:12,130
introductory space science physics

871
00:39:18,250 --> 00:39:15,340
chapter 33 was simply titled

872
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:18,260
unidentified flying objects and this was

873
00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:20,720
a lengthy chapter that basically began

874
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:23,150
with what are unidentified flying

875
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:26,720
objects or UFOs and it goes on and on

876
00:39:33,820 --> 00:39:31,040
and on telling their cadets eyes only to

877
00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:33,830
the cadets that UFOs have been pretty

878
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:36,760
much interacting with humans for almost

879
00:39:43,170 --> 00:39:40,880
50,000 years and and that basically

880
00:39:45,940 --> 00:39:43,180
basically we still don't really know

881
00:39:47,950 --> 00:39:45,950
where they come from why they're here

882
00:39:50,830 --> 00:39:47,960
what their motives are what their agenda

883
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:50,840
is but but they went down the list of

884
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:52,490
all the possible things that UFOs could

885
00:39:58,299 --> 00:39:55,280
be and the final item on the list was

886
00:40:00,640 --> 00:39:58,309
alien visitors and then they go on to

887
00:40:03,969 --> 00:40:00,650
so the cadets that were left with the

888
00:40:06,489 --> 00:40:03,979
unpleasant possibility that we're being

889
00:40:09,849 --> 00:40:06,499
visited by three or four different

890
00:40:13,179 --> 00:40:09,859
groups of aliens at their own different

891
00:40:16,359 --> 00:40:13,189
stages of development like wow are you

892
00:40:20,109 --> 00:40:16,369
kidding me yes this is my smoking gun

893
00:40:22,269 --> 00:40:20,119
and and I made about a gazillion copies

894
00:40:24,789 --> 00:40:22,279
really gazillion that's a big number

895
00:40:27,609 --> 00:40:24,799
because I wanted everybody to see this

896
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:27,619
remember this is 1978 this was just

897
00:40:32,019 --> 00:40:30,170
before a thing called the internet so

898
00:40:34,209 --> 00:40:32,029
this was nothing that would even appear

899
00:40:37,689 --> 00:40:34,219
on the Internet at that point in time

900
00:40:40,929 --> 00:40:37,699
and so we prepared this whole packet

901
00:40:45,130 --> 00:40:40,939
this chapter was in our packet and I was

902
00:40:48,969 --> 00:40:45,140
amazed that nobody in media picked up on

903
00:40:51,069 --> 00:40:48,979
this I thought are you kidding me have

904
00:40:54,269 --> 00:40:51,079
you people read this this is what the

905
00:40:57,630 --> 00:40:54,279
Air Force was telling their cadets in

906
00:40:59,920 --> 00:40:57,640
1968 and shortly after that they removed

907
00:41:03,509 --> 00:40:59,930
most of the information from that

908
00:41:06,130 --> 00:41:03,519
chapter in that book but really and also

909
00:41:09,549 --> 00:41:06,140
keeping in mind that was a year before

910
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:09,559
they closed Project Blue Book you know

911
00:41:12,939 --> 00:41:11,359
there are no coincidences in all of this

912
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:12,949
but this is something that your father

913
00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:16,880
he really wanted people to know as much

914
00:41:23,319 --> 00:41:20,630
of the truth as possible and and and I'm

915
00:41:25,689 --> 00:41:23,329
thankful to knowing him because he made

916
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:25,699
me realize that this is not a simple

917
00:41:30,339 --> 00:41:28,609
thing of UFOs maybe being from other

918
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:30,349
planets or the Pleiades or something

919
00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:33,170
this is much more complex than I think

920
00:41:38,289 --> 00:41:36,049
most nations of the world know about I

921
00:41:40,809 --> 00:41:38,299
think part of the secrecy that your

922
00:41:42,729 --> 00:41:40,819
father taught me is that we can't let

923
00:41:44,709 --> 00:41:42,739
the public go everything because we

924
00:41:47,859 --> 00:41:44,719
don't know everything

925
00:41:50,289 --> 00:41:47,869
if we're really in that kind of weird

926
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:50,299
position so better to try and put it

927
00:41:54,849 --> 00:41:52,249
under the rug try and make it go away

928
00:41:57,249 --> 00:41:54,859
keep it quiet let the public go about

929
00:41:58,989 --> 00:41:57,259
their daily business their nine-to-five

930
00:42:01,749 --> 00:41:58,999
jobs raising their families and their

931
00:42:05,799 --> 00:42:01,759
kids and their dogs let's not cause any

932
00:42:08,979 --> 00:42:05,809
kind of alert and and I always felt that

933
00:42:11,229 --> 00:42:08,989
from him one of the greatest men I've

934
00:42:12,190 --> 00:42:11,239
ever met and I'm so thankful that you

935
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:12,200
guys

936
00:42:16,990 --> 00:42:14,810
are here and telling his story and and

937
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:17,000
offering up his legacy to all of us Oh

938
00:42:23,710 --> 00:42:19,370
Thank You Lee that's wonderful and I'm

939
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:23,720
happy to show you a secure undisclosed

940
00:42:28,090 --> 00:42:25,790
location today and I'm taking delivery

941
00:42:30,130 --> 00:42:28,100
of some of my father's files that

942
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:30,140
someone is giving to me today in a

943
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:37,850
manila where do these these files these

944
00:42:42,460 --> 00:42:40,310
are or can you tell a little more about

945
00:42:44,140 --> 00:42:42,470
those I don't know because I've not

946
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:44,150
opened the folder yet I just got here

947
00:43:02,320 --> 00:42:56,710
interesting Wow Lee anyway yeah anything

948
00:43:04,540 --> 00:43:02,330
else I was not really wonderful you know

949
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:04,550
he's such a great when he calls in he's

950
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:07,850
great he he's a good friend and I always

951
00:43:18,310 --> 00:43:13,570
loved having him on the show oh you know

952
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:18,320
I've actually Alta day I emailed you yes

953
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:19,010
sir

954
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:21,530
well with Jo I emailed you some pictures

955
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:24,560
of your dad and the two of us at the

956
00:43:31,060 --> 00:43:29,210
United Nations in 1978 and two societies

957
00:43:34,450 --> 00:43:31,070
that come from a letter that he sent me

958
00:43:36,220 --> 00:43:34,460
in early 78 where he said that he really

959
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:36,230
liked my proposal if I might like to do

960
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:38,570
with the UN and he's always wanted to be

961
00:43:42,610 --> 00:43:41,090
at the United Nations and talk about the

962
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:42,620
UN and that I've sent you another

963
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:44,530
picture it actually shows him they're

964
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:47,930
giving giving his speech finally at the

965
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:51,200
United Nations I would love to see those

966
00:43:55,630 --> 00:43:54,170
photos Lee thank you okay well they're

967
00:43:57,250 --> 00:43:55,640
in your they're in your computer please

968
00:43:58,690 --> 00:43:57,260
share them with your brother

969
00:44:02,200 --> 00:43:58,700
and I'd let the faint touch with the

970
00:44:03,730 --> 00:44:02,210
bowl to do Thank You plastic nice thank

971
00:44:05,950 --> 00:44:03,740
you all right Lee take care okay thank

972
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:05,960
you thank you Thank You Martin all right

973
00:44:10,770 --> 00:44:07,850
take care thanks for the call

974
00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:10,780
sorry about the Skype noise right then

975
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:12,950
it's all set now if someone wants to

976
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:14,690
call in that number is up on the screen

977
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:17,680
at six oh three nine six seven four

978
00:44:25,630 --> 00:44:23,690
o3o so one of the things I was thinking

979
00:44:27,970 --> 00:44:25,640
about or

980
00:44:29,769 --> 00:44:27,980
actually this is a question from Dave

981
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:29,779
Marla but I also was wondering the same

982
00:44:32,349 --> 00:44:30,410
thing

983
00:44:35,410 --> 00:44:32,359
do you think your father ever had any

984
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:35,420
regrets being involved in the UFO

985
00:44:46,359 --> 00:44:42,250
subject I would say absolutely not he I

986
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:46,369
thought loved the exposure to something

987
00:44:52,450 --> 00:44:49,569
unexplainable to something that might be

988
00:44:56,650 --> 00:44:52,460
you know and a whole another chapter in

989
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:56,660
physics he liked it I mean it was you

990
00:45:02,339 --> 00:44:58,880
know stressful but I'm I think he is

991
00:45:05,829 --> 00:45:02,349
very happy to have been involved with it

992
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:05,839
yeah I would I would add that he didn't

993
00:45:10,059 --> 00:45:08,210
regret answering the call to what seemed

994
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:10,069
like a part-time job in the late 40s

995
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:12,890
which turned into a you know an

996
00:45:17,529 --> 00:45:14,960
avocation certainly had a lot of

997
00:45:19,029 --> 00:45:17,539
frustrations with how things happen and

998
00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:19,039
you mentioned the Robertson panel on the

999
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:21,380
Condon committee but the decision to get

1000
00:45:27,370 --> 00:45:23,180
involved in the first place

1001
00:45:30,910 --> 00:45:27,380
not at all very good yeah now as far as

1002
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:30,920
him being portrayed on the History

1003
00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:34,160
Channel series I'm wondering how

1004
00:45:41,650 --> 00:45:38,150
accurate it might be in the way that the

1005
00:45:45,339 --> 00:45:41,660
Air Force was kind of like their

1006
00:45:47,380 --> 00:45:45,349
attitude was don't get too serious about

1007
00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:47,390
this don't look at it too seriously we

1008
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:50,390
just want to you know we want to call it

1009
00:45:54,430 --> 00:45:53,450
something and calm people down they say

1010
00:46:01,120 --> 00:45:54,440
would you say that was pretty accurate

1011
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:01,130
of what was going on yeah I would and

1012
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:02,450
that was that was one of his major

1013
00:46:07,089 --> 00:46:05,150
frustrations is that they wouldn't take

1014
00:46:09,249 --> 00:46:07,099
the subject seriously they just wanted

1015
00:46:11,019 --> 00:46:09,259
to calm the public you know I think

1016
00:46:13,359 --> 00:46:11,029
initially was coming from the idea that

1017
00:46:16,180 --> 00:46:13,369
if the public got too interested in UFOs

1018
00:46:18,339 --> 00:46:16,190
and too excited about it they would jam

1019
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:18,349
up the communications systems at the

1020
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,450
time which weren't that sophisticated

1021
00:46:25,630 --> 00:46:22,400
and and leave an opening for the

1022
00:46:28,349 --> 00:46:25,640
Russians or the Chinese to invade that

1023
00:46:34,269 --> 00:46:28,359
was one of their major concerns for

1024
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:34,279
squashing the UFO phenomenon yeah the

1025
00:46:38,890 --> 00:46:37,730
show does show portray how the Air Force

1026
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:38,900
looked at it they just wanted to explain

1027
00:46:44,590 --> 00:46:39,530
cases

1028
00:46:46,420 --> 00:46:44,600
with that as as you can see in in the

1029
00:46:48,010 --> 00:46:46,430
graphics in the show there were over

1030
00:46:49,780 --> 00:46:48,020
twelve thousand cases that Bluebook

1031
00:46:52,510 --> 00:46:49,790
investigated and they couldn't explain

1032
00:46:55,420 --> 00:46:52,520
700 so even with the military saying

1033
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:55,430
your job is to explain all of them they

1034
00:47:04,090 --> 00:47:00,800
did a pretty crappy job yeah yeah did

1035
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:04,100
was there ever a case that he may have

1036
00:47:09,970 --> 00:47:06,290
discussed with you that he said you

1037
00:47:14,350 --> 00:47:09,980
can't talk about well we can't talk

1038
00:47:16,690 --> 00:47:14,360
about it well feel free to no no no I

1039
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:16,700
mean did he say you know you can't talk

1040
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:18,410
about this until I find out more about

1041
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:21,440
it or did he ever discuss what you could

1042
00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:24,530
and could not talk about I don't know

1043
00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:25,910
what was that a box in the basement that

1044
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:28,310
says you know locked boxes says do not

1045
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:35,810
open till 2020 what no it was just just

1046
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:38,450
the identity of various people that we

1047
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:43,040
weren't allowed to pass on but D but the

1048
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:44,960
phenomenon the report itself was okay

1049
00:47:51,550 --> 00:47:47,630
sure I never found one that he he said

1050
00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:51,560
we couldn't express and what about the

1051
00:47:57,070 --> 00:47:55,310
the cases that were there some that he

1052
00:47:58,900 --> 00:47:57,080
just thought wow you know besides we

1053
00:48:02,530 --> 00:47:58,910
talked about the Socorro incident and

1054
00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:02,540
that had to do with Lonnie Zamora being

1055
00:48:07,630 --> 00:48:04,910
a very credible police officer you know

1056
00:48:10,540 --> 00:48:07,640
that's I know so much has to do about

1057
00:48:13,150 --> 00:48:10,550
the witness itself or witnesses were

1058
00:48:16,330 --> 00:48:13,160
there other cases that were just really

1059
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:16,340
incredible and that he just thought

1060
00:48:23,590 --> 00:48:18,290
there's really really something to this

1061
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:23,600
one out of those seven hundred well he

1062
00:48:29,590 --> 00:48:26,570
was pretty intrigued with I guess the

1063
00:48:32,460 --> 00:48:29,600
Pascagoula case oh yeah with Charlie

1064
00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:32,470
Hickson and Calvin Parker mm-hmm

1065
00:48:38,170 --> 00:48:35,270
because they seemed you know they

1066
00:48:39,970 --> 00:48:38,180
totally believed what he felt they

1067
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:39,980
totally believed what had happened to

1068
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:43,520
them and Charlie Higson came to our

1069
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:45,650
house and you know it was the first

1070
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:48,290
times I had actually seen someone from

1071
00:48:53,470 --> 00:48:50,930
the south and has such a strong southern

1072
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:53,480
accent all

1073
00:49:01,660 --> 00:48:55,970
draw has made quite an impression on me

1074
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:01,670
but man he was so sincere you couldn't

1075
00:49:07,329 --> 00:49:04,130
help couldn't think for a second that

1076
00:49:10,180 --> 00:49:07,339
the guy was faking it right and I feel

1077
00:49:12,990 --> 00:49:10,190
that way about Calvin who's just started

1078
00:49:15,370 --> 00:49:13,000
talking about it and wrote a book yeah

1079
00:49:16,839 --> 00:49:15,380
you know he's the other one there the

1080
00:49:18,250 --> 00:49:16,849
best part about that case I was just

1081
00:49:21,790 --> 00:49:18,260
talking about this the other day is that

1082
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:21,800
they had a hidden tape recorder in at

1083
00:49:26,890 --> 00:49:24,410
the police on you station and that they

1084
00:49:28,930 --> 00:49:26,900
just revealed you know that they were

1085
00:49:32,109 --> 00:49:28,940
really scared and you know it felt very

1086
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:32,119
authentic yeah he liked that very much

1087
00:49:36,099 --> 00:49:33,680
and he also liked the father Bill case

1088
00:49:38,020 --> 00:49:36,109
yeah that I mentioned or because of the

1089
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:38,030
credibility of the witness and the the

1090
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:40,000
multiplicity of the width of the

1091
00:49:44,589 --> 00:49:42,650
corroborating witnesses as well again

1092
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:44,599
for the person that's of new to this

1093
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:47,570
looking into the topic can you explain

1094
00:49:51,460 --> 00:49:49,550
the father Gill case I mean he came and

1095
00:49:55,300 --> 00:49:51,470
talked about it to remember I mean I

1096
00:49:57,370 --> 00:49:55,310
sure you know the case was an Anglican

1097
00:50:00,730 --> 00:49:57,380
priest and missionary in Papua New

1098
00:50:02,819 --> 00:50:00,740
Guinea and I believe the case was 1951

1099
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:02,829
and there was in the 50s at some point

1100
00:50:09,550 --> 00:50:06,770
and so father Gill hears a commotion

1101
00:50:11,980 --> 00:50:09,560
outside and goes outside and he sees a

1102
00:50:15,010 --> 00:50:11,990
lot of the New Guineans looking up in

1103
00:50:16,750 --> 00:50:15,020
the sky and they see a craft and one of

1104
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:16,760
the things destruct my father from

1105
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:17,599
fothergill's

1106
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:20,240
relating of the tale was how he is able

1107
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:23,119
to use trigonometry and sort of estimate

1108
00:50:27,370 --> 00:50:26,000
how far and how long the distance or how

1109
00:50:29,980 --> 00:50:27,380
large the object and they're looking at

1110
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:29,990
this craft hovering and then a kind of

1111
00:50:36,190 --> 00:50:32,960
hatch opens up and they see humanoids

1112
00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:36,200
and Fothergill waves and then a wave

1113
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:40,670
back yes and you know just a fascinating

1114
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,710
anecdote and then at some point father

1115
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:44,240
Gill went back inside for evening

1116
00:50:51,370 --> 00:50:47,210
prayers and he was criticized for that

1117
00:50:53,650 --> 00:50:51,380
and she replied well I gave my oath to

1118
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:53,660
do my evening prayers not to do my

1119
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:55,280
evening prayers unless there's a craft

1120
00:50:59,470 --> 00:50:58,130
floating in the sky and there was there

1121
00:51:02,020 --> 00:50:59,480
were sightings elsewhere in the country

1122
00:51:04,690 --> 00:51:02,030
maybe 500 witnesses for this sighting

1123
00:51:06,970 --> 00:51:04,700
and at a witness who and he came to our

1124
00:51:09,310 --> 00:51:06,980
house and I saw him he was

1125
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:09,320
clearly a very intelligent man in

1126
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:12,410
possession of his senses who's not going

1127
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:14,960
on the book circuit you know trying to

1128
00:51:21,310 --> 00:51:17,920
get publicity for having seen the UFO

1129
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:21,320
and he gave a remarkably consistent

1130
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:23,930
account of the of the event over the

1131
00:51:29,410 --> 00:51:26,570
years and my father thought was very

1132
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:29,420
struck by the fact that we're so near

1133
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:31,760
witnesses to the case and such what he

1134
00:51:36,820 --> 00:51:34,640
felt was an unimpeachable witness right

1135
00:51:39,099 --> 00:51:36,830
yeah that to me and there was a

1136
00:51:41,470 --> 00:51:39,109
flashlight to the the following day when

1137
00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:41,480
it showed up I believe that they blanked

1138
00:51:45,130 --> 00:51:42,950
the lights back and forth of we'd have

1139
00:51:46,740 --> 00:51:45,140
another caller on the line caller your

1140
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:46,750
name where are you calling from

1141
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:49,040
yeah the Steve Bassett calling from

1142
00:51:53,010 --> 00:51:51,890
California hey Steve how are ya welcome

1143
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:53,020
to the show

1144
00:51:59,440 --> 00:51:56,000
yeah I appreciate what you're doing

1145
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:59,450
Martin and Jolin and Paul you're coming

1146
00:52:04,570 --> 00:52:01,280
forward publicly at this time is

1147
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:04,580
extremely appreciated by the advocacy

1148
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:07,130
movement just two quick things one a

1149
00:52:12,099 --> 00:52:10,490
quick story in 1986 I was living in

1150
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:12,109
Denver I've been following the issue

1151
00:52:18,190 --> 00:52:15,200
from time to time but not engaged and I

1152
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:18,200
just happened to see some little blurb

1153
00:52:24,730 --> 00:52:21,920
that there was a lecture being given by

1154
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:24,740
the Denver MUFON and that dr. Allen

1155
00:52:30,190 --> 00:52:27,920
Hynek was going to present and so I said

1156
00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:30,200
oh that's interesting and so I went and

1157
00:52:37,359 --> 00:52:33,590
I took a date this is like the ultimate

1158
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:37,369
deep date I think and I don't know she

1159
00:52:42,910 --> 00:52:39,530
was impressed or not but I went and I

1160
00:52:46,859 --> 00:52:42,920
heard him speak now later I would learn

1161
00:52:50,050 --> 00:52:46,869
that this was very close to his passing

1162
00:52:52,060 --> 00:52:50,060
and I remember very well that wow that

1163
00:52:54,190 --> 00:52:52,070
the presentation was wonderful and I was

1164
00:52:56,859 --> 00:52:54,200
very interested there was something not

1165
00:52:58,630 --> 00:52:56,869
quite right but he did not speak to that

1166
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:58,640
later I would learn of course what

1167
00:53:03,070 --> 00:53:01,040
happened this was nine years before I

1168
00:53:05,830 --> 00:53:03,080
entered the field but when I did start

1169
00:53:08,890 --> 00:53:05,840
to look into enter new field and 95 that

1170
00:53:10,990 --> 00:53:08,900
that one evening I was there and I

1171
00:53:13,060 --> 00:53:11,000
thought about it a great deal and it was

1172
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:13,070
part of the reasons that I they moved

1173
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:14,960
into this field because I at that point

1174
00:53:18,849 --> 00:53:17,450
understood what he had done the

1175
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:18,859
sacrifices he had made in the

1176
00:53:23,530 --> 00:53:21,050
contribution he'd made

1177
00:53:24,730 --> 00:53:23,540
so I just want to mention that last

1178
00:53:28,180 --> 00:53:24,740
thing is just a quick question of the

1179
00:53:30,580 --> 00:53:28,190
two brothers could you comment on dr.

1180
00:53:33,010 --> 00:53:30,590
hynek's a very complex relationship with

1181
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:33,020
of course the legendary dr. William

1182
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:40,480
McDonald McDonald yes I mean I'm sorry

1183
00:53:44,530 --> 00:53:43,040
yes dr. James McDonald of course you

1184
00:53:48,310 --> 00:53:44,540
tried you tried to trick us there Steve

1185
00:53:50,500 --> 00:53:48,320
I know to you my memory I'm getting very

1186
00:53:52,570 --> 00:53:50,510
old yeah Joel you want to take that sure

1187
00:53:55,150 --> 00:53:52,580
what I remember one time driving up to

1188
00:53:57,250 --> 00:53:55,160
our cabin in Northern Ontario with my

1189
00:53:59,530 --> 00:53:57,260
father both you know I was sitting in

1190
00:54:02,560 --> 00:53:59,540
the front seat driving from Chicago and

1191
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:02,570
he was he was I guess he was agitated

1192
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:04,850
you know by something and and I said dad

1193
00:54:11,650 --> 00:54:07,730
what's going on and he said well this

1194
00:54:15,099 --> 00:54:11,660
James McDonald keeps after me too you

1195
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:15,109
know come clean as he puts it on what's

1196
00:54:22,990 --> 00:54:18,770
going on with UFOs and as I mentioned

1197
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:23,000
earlier in the show that my dad was in a

1198
00:54:28,780 --> 00:54:26,090
tough spot because the the serious UFO

1199
00:54:31,530 --> 00:54:28,790
people we're gonna want it into really

1200
00:54:35,980 --> 00:54:31,540
since the to take advantage of his

1201
00:54:37,690 --> 00:54:35,990
visibility and his platform and say UFOs

1202
00:54:39,340 --> 00:54:37,700
you know are happening then they

1203
00:54:43,870 --> 00:54:39,350
represent something we have to look at

1204
00:54:46,510 --> 00:54:43,880
and you know why Allen are you you know

1205
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:46,520
holding back and you know because he

1206
00:54:50,109 --> 00:54:48,770
explained to me that you know he had to

1207
00:54:51,730 --> 00:54:50,119
keep the door open with the Air Force

1208
00:54:53,140 --> 00:54:51,740
and he had to keep this you know his

1209
00:54:55,870 --> 00:54:53,150
credentials going with the scientific

1210
00:54:57,730 --> 00:54:55,880
community and so that caused him a lot

1211
00:55:01,710 --> 00:54:57,740
of frustration and he had a lot of

1212
00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:01,720
respect for James McDonald but you know

1213
00:55:09,550 --> 00:55:04,760
wished that he could have I guess made

1214
00:55:12,550 --> 00:55:09,560
James happy what couldn't you know he

1215
00:55:14,770 --> 00:55:12,560
was a proverbial you know wolf in a

1216
00:55:19,210 --> 00:55:14,780
henhouse you know he had access to the

1217
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:19,220
data and like he did a great respect for

1218
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:23,090
James McDonald and but he felt that okay

1219
00:55:26,260 --> 00:55:24,770
I can't disseminate the information as

1220
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:26,270
much as I'd like to you right now but I

1221
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:27,890
can help with the collection and

1222
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:29,990
analysis of the data so that's still

1223
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:31,910
going to help advance the science and

1224
00:55:34,210 --> 00:55:33,890
then perhaps someday and luckily he was

1225
00:55:38,140 --> 00:55:34,220
able

1226
00:55:38,830 --> 00:55:38,150
- then disclose cases subsequently thank

1227
00:55:42,070 --> 00:55:38,840
you

1228
00:55:43,660 --> 00:55:42,080
as I mentioned to Paul I hope that maybe

1229
00:55:46,030 --> 00:55:43,670
somewhere down the line in the third or

1230
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:46,040
fourth season of Project Blue Book that

1231
00:55:52,450 --> 00:55:48,530
this relationship could be featured in

1232
00:55:55,180 --> 00:55:52,460
the program and lastly I commend to the

1233
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:55,190
listeners the book by and ruffle called

1234
00:56:01,270 --> 00:55:59,359
firestorm dr. Hynek is in there and it

1235
00:56:03,339 --> 00:56:01,280
gets into this this relationship at

1236
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:03,349
depth it's a fantastic book hopefully

1237
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:04,970
one day to be be a movie

1238
00:56:12,130 --> 00:56:06,890
ok I'm gonna I'm gonna sit back and

1239
00:56:14,589 --> 00:56:12,140
listen all right hey Steve both the

1240
00:56:17,740 --> 00:56:14,599
network executive in charge of the

1241
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:17,750
program in history arturo interion

1242
00:56:24,070 --> 00:56:19,970
and the creator of the show - David

1243
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:24,080
O'Leary our huge UFO buffs and they have

1244
00:56:29,770 --> 00:56:26,510
they have read almost all the main books

1245
00:56:34,030 --> 00:56:29,780
and they're very aware of James McDonald

1246
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:34,040
and we've talked about it I'm glad to

1247
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:35,330
hear that I hope they meet him someday

1248
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:38,810
all right good all right thank you thank

1249
00:56:46,540 --> 00:56:43,490
you Steve take care so we're there other

1250
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:46,550
now druffle that's a name that's

1251
00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:49,760
synonymous with the great research the

1252
00:56:55,329 --> 00:56:52,910
UFO topic were there and I know they

1253
00:56:56,609 --> 00:56:55,339
were in California and you were in the

1254
00:56:59,079 --> 00:56:56,619
Midwest

1255
00:57:02,710 --> 00:56:59,089
were there people that your father

1256
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:02,720
relied on that we he thought were

1257
00:57:06,579 --> 00:57:04,400
especially good as far as a you

1258
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:06,589
ufo-ologists you know ufologists

1259
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:13,970
researchers sure he had what or there

1260
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:16,210
was what he called the invisible college

1261
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:20,330
it was a you know a group of scientists

1262
00:57:25,210 --> 00:57:22,910
who were equally interested in the UFO

1263
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:25,220
phenomenon but we're afraid to let

1264
00:57:32,020 --> 00:57:28,400
anybody know that they were and so

1265
00:57:34,780 --> 00:57:32,030
there's quite a lot of people who you

1266
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:34,790
know we're working with him and helping

1267
00:57:42,190 --> 00:57:39,890
where they could and then also a set of

1268
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:42,200
people you know a scientist who would

1269
00:57:49,069 --> 00:57:45,450
also go out and investigate for him

1270
00:57:51,260 --> 00:57:49,079
one was named Powers who was at our

1271
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:51,270
house a lot and did a lot of

1272
00:57:56,990 --> 00:57:54,720
investigating for my dad yeah and you

1273
00:57:59,780 --> 00:57:57,000
know and we mentioned Kevin Randall and

1274
00:58:02,720 --> 00:57:59,790
we heard from Lee Spiegel Powell Harris

1275
00:58:04,790 --> 00:58:02,730
of course Mark rod agur of the Center

1276
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:04,800
for UFO studies yeah and my dad's

1277
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:06,210
longtime friend and colleague Jacques

1278
00:58:13,220 --> 00:58:08,970
Vallee so there was a lot of people that

1279
00:58:16,250 --> 00:58:13,230
he relied on heavily for help and and

1280
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:16,260
guidance right right so going back to

1281
00:58:23,359 --> 00:58:19,920
when we'll say the modern UFO they say

1282
00:58:26,059 --> 00:58:23,369
modern UFOs started 1947 you know with

1283
00:58:29,450 --> 00:58:26,069
the Arnold sighting and all that and

1284
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:29,460
they said there's hysteria I just I had

1285
00:58:34,430 --> 00:58:31,410
a question I saw it come up on Facebook

1286
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:34,440
and that was a someone was saying what

1287
00:58:38,780 --> 00:58:35,970
do you think the hoaxes were like back

1288
00:58:41,569 --> 00:58:38,790
then your father talked about actual

1289
00:58:44,059 --> 00:58:41,579
hoaxes you know like today of course

1290
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:44,069
there's CGI there's you know on YouTube

1291
00:58:47,059 --> 00:58:46,050
and it's hard to tell what's you know

1292
00:58:51,109 --> 00:58:47,069
real and what's not real

1293
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:51,119
but were there hoaxes back then oh yeah

1294
00:58:55,700 --> 00:58:53,520
there were it was always very

1295
00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:55,710
frustrating when an interesting case

1296
00:59:01,130 --> 00:58:57,660
would come along and then we would learn

1297
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:01,140
that it's a hoax very frustrating and

1298
00:59:05,809 --> 00:59:03,510
disheartening there's that famous

1299
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:05,819
picture of I think my dad is actually

1300
00:59:11,839 --> 00:59:09,210
holding it up in one press conference or

1301
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:11,849
lecture of a thing that looks like a

1302
00:59:18,349 --> 00:59:13,890
flying saucer that turned out to be a

1303
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:18,359
chicken incubator that somebody hung up

1304
00:59:26,450 --> 00:59:23,130
in the air yeah sure there were hoaxes

1305
00:59:29,539 --> 00:59:26,460
yeah did he ever he was around when

1306
00:59:33,170 --> 00:59:29,549
billy meier started showing things are

1307
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:33,180
you familiar with that name yes yes and

1308
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:37,290
I forget particular details of his this

1309
00:59:42,380 --> 00:59:39,690
particular a lien subspecies contacts

1310
00:59:44,930 --> 00:59:42,390
but yes Billy Meyer from Switzerland and

1311
00:59:46,609 --> 00:59:44,940
a lot of goofy photos yes yeah yeah did

1312
00:59:49,220 --> 00:59:46,619
he ever talk about those two are you

1313
00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:49,230
aware of them Billy Meyer was this sort

1314
00:59:54,530 --> 00:59:51,630
of the same ilk let's say as I could

1315
00:59:57,079 --> 00:59:54,540
Erich von Daniken we were just

1316
00:59:59,180 --> 00:59:57,089
fabricating things out a whole call yeah

1317
01:00:02,930 --> 00:59:59,190
yeah and did you talk about the

1318
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:02,940
contactee movement at all he was

1319
01:00:09,470 --> 01:00:05,450
reticent to talk too much about

1320
01:00:11,210 --> 01:00:09,480
abduction Zaandam ducked he's reasons

1321
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:11,220
it's very sensationalistic and if you're

1322
01:00:16,579 --> 01:00:13,410
a scientist trying to prove you know

1323
01:00:19,460 --> 01:00:16,589
present a credible image about a very

1324
01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:19,470
intractable phenomena abductions are

1325
01:00:23,870 --> 01:00:21,839
kind of murky water plus there was also

1326
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:23,880
a lot less science to investigate with

1327
01:00:27,620 --> 01:00:25,440
that you know my father made the point

1328
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:27,630
that he didn't investigate UFOs he

1329
01:00:32,180 --> 01:00:30,690
investigated UFO reports and so the

1330
01:00:34,130 --> 01:00:32,190
reports he liked were like air force

1331
01:00:36,290 --> 01:00:34,140
witnesses and as Joel mentioned credible

1332
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:36,300
witnesses but when you have somebody

1333
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:37,410
says they've been abducted

1334
01:00:41,059 --> 01:00:38,970
there aren't usually a lot of

1335
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:41,069
corroborating witnesses or physical

1336
01:00:45,410 --> 01:00:42,720
evidence to go along with that so there

1337
01:00:47,650 --> 01:00:45,420
just wasn't as much to examine and put

1338
01:00:52,700 --> 01:00:47,660
in a sort of intellectual petri dish I

1339
01:00:54,410 --> 01:00:52,710
see what about crashed UFOs did that

1340
01:00:58,700 --> 01:00:54,420
subject ever come up did you ever hear

1341
01:01:03,079 --> 01:00:58,710
him talk about that UFO crashes the

1342
01:01:07,309 --> 01:01:03,089
Aztek and there's a number of suppose it

1343
01:01:12,859 --> 01:01:07,319
crashes I you know except from different

1344
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:12,869
rows well I can't think of any and one

1345
01:01:20,450 --> 01:01:16,650
of them along those doing well no I

1346
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:20,460
don't recall yeah certainly a lot of you

1347
01:01:27,740 --> 01:01:25,650
know reports of UFO landing you know

1348
01:01:29,930 --> 01:01:27,750
landing pad impressions and yeah broken

1349
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:29,940
branches and you know a lot of physical

1350
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:33,170
effects from them certainly but yeah not

1351
01:01:37,940 --> 01:01:36,000
crashed UFOs except earth and and the

1352
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:37,950
second episode of Project Blue Book

1353
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:41,760
delves into a supposed crashed UFO in

1354
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:43,920
the flatwoods monster case oh yes which

1355
01:01:48,650 --> 01:01:46,650
turns out to have been in my father's

1356
01:01:49,250 --> 01:01:48,660
view you know a meteor meteor right

1357
01:01:53,870 --> 01:01:49,260
sorry

1358
01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:53,880
and and and an owl but those are good

1359
01:01:57,470 --> 01:01:55,680
cases if you can have that evidence

1360
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:57,480
they're just not that many

1361
01:02:03,650 --> 01:02:00,720
I guess the UFO pilots are pretty good

1362
01:02:05,809 --> 01:02:03,660
and don't crash that much now I know a

1363
01:02:08,450 --> 01:02:05,819
lot of people are gonna hear that that

1364
01:02:12,260 --> 01:02:08,460
are into the flatwoods monster case and

1365
01:02:13,030 --> 01:02:12,270
are gonna say that was no well did he

1366
01:02:15,250 --> 01:02:13,040
yeah

1367
01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:15,260
do you hear any of that you know there's

1368
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:19,310
no I know there and they'd show in the

1369
01:02:23,370 --> 01:02:21,290
chyron that the living witnesses don't

1370
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:23,380
believe in the owl and meteorite

1371
01:02:30,610 --> 01:02:28,970
explanation I I don't know it's it's an

1372
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:30,620
interesting case and it made for great

1373
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:32,690
theater in the show but I don't really

1374
01:02:36,910 --> 01:02:34,880
know much beyond that all you can say

1375
01:02:38,260 --> 01:02:36,920
meteor you know is when it's in the air

1376
01:02:42,490 --> 01:02:38,270
it's a media or when it's on the ground

1377
01:02:47,470 --> 01:02:42,500
it's a meteorite so it was yeah it was a

1378
01:02:51,790 --> 01:02:47,480
meteor I see the astronomer coming

1379
01:02:57,010 --> 01:02:51,800
through on you looks like Daddy talks

1380
01:02:59,050 --> 01:02:57,020
like him did your father do farther

1381
01:03:06,430 --> 01:02:59,060
influence both of you your lives today

1382
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:06,440
and now look at that yeah and and your

1383
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:12,770
interests for instance oh absolutely I I

1384
01:03:22,930 --> 01:03:16,250
guess I got my father is interested in

1385
01:03:25,030 --> 01:03:22,940
science and radio and physics yeah

1386
01:03:29,380 --> 01:03:25,040
very strongly and of course interest in

1387
01:03:30,970 --> 01:03:29,390
astronomy as well yeah um I'm sure the

1388
01:03:35,350 --> 01:03:30,980
black sheep of the family I was a French

1389
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:35,360
major but I got for my father and for my

1390
01:03:40,690 --> 01:03:37,250
mother this sort of unquenchable thirst

1391
01:03:42,730 --> 01:03:40,700
for knowledge and neither one of our

1392
01:03:45,100 --> 01:03:42,740
parents were really tried to focus or

1393
01:03:47,710 --> 01:03:45,110
steer us in a certain direction but they

1394
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:47,720
just instilled in us this this majesty

1395
01:03:52,300 --> 01:03:49,610
and magic that's in the universe and

1396
01:03:53,740 --> 01:03:52,310
that you should go out and find your

1397
01:03:56,830 --> 01:03:53,750
passion and find what's really

1398
01:03:59,740 --> 01:03:56,840
interesting and and delve into it so

1399
01:04:02,500 --> 01:03:59,750
they both always learned and you know my

1400
01:04:06,270 --> 01:04:02,510
mother was a you know managed in a home

1401
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:06,280
and she dropped it never stopped

1402
01:04:12,250 --> 01:04:08,810
learning whether its languages or

1403
01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:12,260
cultures or archeology or blocks and so

1404
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:13,910
the thing we really got that I see for

1405
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:16,490
my parents is this this thirst for

1406
01:04:21,370 --> 01:04:18,050
knowledge and I'm so appreciative of

1407
01:04:24,670 --> 01:04:21,380
that yeah yeah I would just add that

1408
01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:24,680
both my mom and father were very liberal

1409
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:26,510
in terms of what that let us kids

1410
01:04:32,590 --> 01:04:28,970
more so than I think any of my friends

1411
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:32,600
and that is sort of left us both with

1412
01:04:40,030 --> 01:04:34,730
this notion that we can go fearlessly

1413
01:04:44,020 --> 01:04:40,040
into the unknown and you know just be

1414
01:04:45,850 --> 01:04:44,030
brave I guess by the time my younger

1415
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:45,860
brother Ross and I came along after the

1416
01:04:52,930 --> 01:04:48,880
older ones I can tell you that

1417
01:04:57,300 --> 01:04:52,940
and what about your you mentioned your

1418
01:05:02,830 --> 01:04:57,310
mom is is different than she's portrayed

1419
01:05:05,110 --> 01:05:02,840
in in the in the show what that's about

1420
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:05,120
her we're different than what we're

1421
01:05:13,930 --> 01:05:07,810
seeing in Lois it was some much more

1422
01:05:17,860 --> 01:05:13,940
capable and I guess not as demure as our

1423
01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:17,870
TV mom is in the show it would be more

1424
01:05:23,050 --> 01:05:19,280
likely I think from my father to come

1425
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:23,060
home and find my mother you know fixing

1426
01:05:27,730 --> 01:05:25,280
the pipes under the kitchen sink rather

1427
01:05:30,790 --> 01:05:27,740
than you know doing what she's doing in

1428
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:30,800
the show but as I mentioned I do believe

1429
01:05:38,340 --> 01:05:33,410
her character arc will go there

1430
01:05:40,660 --> 01:05:38,350
eventually and do you worry at all about

1431
01:05:42,610 --> 01:05:40,670
this is something that someone sent me

1432
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:42,620
earlier today and they just wondered if

1433
01:05:48,010 --> 01:05:44,090
you either when are you worried at all

1434
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:48,020
that you're you know that the the show

1435
01:05:53,170 --> 01:05:50,810
that's out now they're gonna take things

1436
01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:53,180
at face value that really happened

1437
01:05:59,470 --> 01:05:57,440
though think you know in other words the

1438
01:06:01,090 --> 01:05:59,480
way it's played out in the show they're

1439
01:06:03,670 --> 01:06:01,100
gonna think your father really did this

1440
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:03,680
or really experienced that and and did

1441
01:06:12,250 --> 01:06:07,850
not yeah I think it is a bit of a worry

1442
01:06:16,150 --> 01:06:12,260
actually because at the screening party

1443
01:06:17,710 --> 01:06:16,160
that my brother Paul set up there were

1444
01:06:19,660 --> 01:06:17,720
people coming up to me afterwards saying

1445
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:19,670
did your dad really it was even really

1446
01:06:24,850 --> 01:06:21,530
in the crash and you know they were

1447
01:06:27,490 --> 01:06:24,860
taking a lot of it quite literally but

1448
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:27,500
fortunately in the show they often show

1449
01:06:32,500 --> 01:06:29,330
you them the real case and what really

1450
01:06:34,780 --> 01:06:32,510
happened which is very good and then

1451
01:06:36,700 --> 01:06:34,790
they also you know Joel and I've done

1452
01:06:39,130 --> 01:06:36,710
some publicity events in conjunction

1453
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:39,140
with the show and on the website they

1454
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:40,160
have an extra

1455
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:42,650
vignettes of interviews with Joel and I

1456
01:06:47,730 --> 01:06:44,569
and Jacques Vallee and Richard Dolan and

1457
01:06:50,170 --> 01:06:47,740
others in lieutenant colonel friend

1458
01:06:52,900 --> 01:06:50,180
portraying what really happened and I

1459
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:52,910
think going back to normal point I I

1460
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:55,010
think if people are asking me also hey

1461
01:06:59,500 --> 01:06:57,170
did your mom really brandish a fireplace

1462
01:07:02,349 --> 01:06:59,510
poker by the door maybe a couple times

1463
01:07:05,529 --> 01:07:02,359
when I came home late you know I think

1464
01:07:08,380 --> 01:07:05,539
the show is not trying to portray itself

1465
01:07:10,329 --> 01:07:08,390
as being completely accurate and I think

1466
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:10,339
the the producers in the network are

1467
01:07:16,059 --> 01:07:13,250
going to great lengths to to portray a

1468
01:07:18,210 --> 01:07:16,069
balanced view at the phenomena through a

1469
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:18,220
fictional lens and then through a

1470
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:21,730
behind-the-scenes you know real peek

1471
01:07:27,130 --> 01:07:24,650
right yes because they do offer a

1472
01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:27,140
website to go to afterwards to see what

1473
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:28,910
really happened I think that's very

1474
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:32,000
important and I myself I was talking to

1475
01:07:38,020 --> 01:07:33,770
this about my friend Alejandro Alejandro

1476
01:07:41,020 --> 01:07:38,030
Rojas the other day I really when I'm

1477
01:07:42,579 --> 01:07:41,030
watching something historical on TV the

1478
01:07:44,620 --> 01:07:42,589
first thing I do now that we have the

1479
01:07:46,569 --> 01:07:44,630
internet is I jump on the internet and

1480
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:46,579
try to find out more details about the

1481
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:49,130
story and I think I think this is a good

1482
01:07:53,740 --> 01:07:51,890
thing overall a lot of people complained

1483
01:07:56,620 --> 01:07:53,750
when in the UFO field complained about

1484
01:07:59,470 --> 01:07:56,630
hangar 1 but people started talking

1485
01:08:01,210 --> 01:07:59,480
about sightings that we're keeping them

1486
01:08:04,029 --> 01:08:01,220
to themselves so I think this is a good

1487
01:08:06,970 --> 01:08:04,039
thing Project Blue Book the series is a

1488
01:08:10,269 --> 01:08:06,980
really good thing out there it's not

1489
01:08:12,039 --> 01:08:10,279
meant to be historically accurate and I

1490
01:08:14,620 --> 01:08:12,049
think once people get over that fact

1491
01:08:16,269 --> 01:08:14,630
it's gonna be entertaining with tidbits

1492
01:08:19,749 --> 01:08:16,279
of truth in it that they can research

1493
01:08:22,180 --> 01:08:19,759
after so I'm I'm not thumbs up on the

1494
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:22,190
show so far and I've mentioned this too

1495
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:25,370
I love the fact that I can see I'm an

1496
01:08:29,530 --> 01:08:27,650
appraiser and I know you know antiques

1497
01:08:31,599 --> 01:08:29,540
what was made when and all that I it's

1498
01:08:33,370 --> 01:08:31,609
my study so I think they're doing a

1499
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:33,380
wonderful job on the set as far as

1500
01:08:37,150 --> 01:08:35,330
keeping the right vintage as far as

1501
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:37,160
items did your house look like anything

1502
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:39,650
like that in the the show absolutely

1503
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:44,480
exactly like the show as far as you know

1504
01:08:50,229 --> 01:08:46,730
yeah right excellent

1505
01:08:52,209 --> 01:08:50,239
well it has been a true pleasure and I

1506
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:52,219
want to just to read this last thing

1507
01:09:00,229 --> 01:08:53,489
from

1508
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:00,239
would like to thank you for being on the

1509
01:09:04,339 --> 01:09:02,489
show and sharing recollections of your

1510
01:09:07,189 --> 01:09:04,349
father and awning hit honoring his

1511
01:09:10,249 --> 01:09:07,199
memory and I feel the same way thanks so

1512
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:10,259
much to both of you Thank You Marty

1513
01:09:15,379 --> 01:09:12,449
all right closure it's better it's even

1514
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:15,389
a real pleasure and I hope I hope the

1515
01:09:22,189 --> 01:09:17,730
show continues in a success in your

1516
01:09:24,470 --> 01:09:22,199
father's legacy lives on before as long

1517
01:09:27,529 --> 01:09:24,480
as it can right all right that's right

1518
01:09:29,799 --> 01:09:27,539
yeah we hope so too thank you all right